difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber. Troopers in the field were unhappy with the model 1840 commonly referred to as the "old wrist breaker" they wanted a lighter and more maneuverable Saber. The first photo shows the difference between the Model 1840 (top) and Model 1860 sabers. 2014-2022, Cavalry trooper with M1840 Heavy Cavalry Sword and Colt M1860 Army Revolver, (Right) M1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber scabbard mount marked with the letter "D, M1850 Horstmann High Grade Foot Officer Presentation Sword, Custom 1850 Foot/Artillery Officer's Sword, M1860 Presentation Cavalry Officers Saber, Widmann 1832/1834 General Officer's Sword, 1840 Non-Commissioned Officer Attributed to Widmann. Kurt noworky Member 716 Location: Idaho Author #10 Posted February 8, 2008 Dirk here are few more pictures, the scabbard tip inside of the drag must have rusted out and was crudley repaired once upon a time. The Model 1840 Cavalry Saber was based on the 1822 French hussar's sabre. User's name is "spiro.". The 1840 saber was used during the MexicanAmerican War by US Cavalry. The sabre is a nice addition to my Cavalry collection so now that leaves the 1860 and 1872 to be found! Know How to Tell the Difference Between a Movie Sword from a Real Sword. Our Price: $99.95 Compare. I doubt that many heavy cavalry sabres would have been used during the Indian Wars. Both individuals said the saber was Civil War era. The grip is the where the user interfaces with the sword to use the horrible lingo of the computer age. The blade had never been on a wire wheel or known polishing rouge. This allowed me to glue the string wrapping in the same way as the original. Chrisnp. The most noticeable difference - in scabbard - between the 1840 and 1860 is the shape of the grip. Thus, just as with comparably more brittle Civil War memorabilia such as letters, photographs or even uniforms, these swords were not forged yesterday. There are lots of great projects out there. Note the twisted wire wrap is much closer together than on the M1860. The 1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber known as the '''Wrist Breaker'' because of it's heavy forward weight, saw service in the US from it's issue in 1840 through the Civil War and into the Plains Indians wars of the 1870s and 80s. Custom Metal Scabbard. Other hunting swords were also used. SCARCE AMES M1840 ENLISTED CAVALRY SABER DATED 1848 CIVIL WAR SWORD WRISTBREAKER $806.00 26 bids + $45.00 shipping 59 watchers US Civil War Henry Boker Model 1860 Cavalry Sword Saber & Scabbard $775.00 + $43.80 shipping 23 watchers US Civil War Henry Boker Model 1860 Cavalry Sword Saber w/Scabbard $695.00 + $43.80 shipping 20 watchers Below are examples of early 1812 Cavalry, 1826 Naval, and 1818 NCO sword. The Model 1840 Cavalry Saber was based on the French hussar's saber. Retrieved 2008-09-18. The following guide will help you in being able to identify an authentic Civil War sword. Then he took on the scabbard. J.E.B. The blades is 35 1/2 inches long and the scabbards are of steel. Great post Mr. Kelly. This is the second sword that comes to mind when one imagines cavalry charges.This sword was used in the US from about 1860 through the Civil War, and finally the Plains Indian Wars of the 1870's and 1880's. inspected for Andrew D. King ---Armory Sub-Inspector. We were shop rats and dad showed us how to weld at a remarkably early age. Except for a few early German imports, the majority of 1860 sabers were produced in the US, primarily by Ames Manufacturing Company in Chicopee, Massachusetts, a major provider of side arms, swords, light artillery, and heavy ordnance for the Union in the American Civil War, and by firms such as Tiffany and Co in New York and Emerson and Silver in Trenton, New Jersey. Also, to be honest, I wanted to have a useable weapon, an intact piece. We went after each other with swords and BB guns. Thanks, They are both heavy flat back heavy calvary sabres. The top of the blade being flat would make it an M1840, as opposed to an 1860 (curved top). INTERESTING VIDEO Cold Steel U.S. 1860 HEAVY CAVALRY SABER - Review and . $20 delivery Oct 27 - Nov 2 . The wood of the grip has been soaked in oil and then wrapped with string soaked on glue. Here is a photo of a heavy cavalry (1840) enlisted sword next to an 1872 enlisted style light cavalry sword to show the difference in size and weight. Sign up for a new account in our community. Features a tempered 1065 carbon steel blade, solid brass pommel and three bar guard, and a wood grip wrapped in leather and brass wire. As you noted the blade on the 1840 is substantially larger than the 1860. 3022: LOT OF 3: U.S. MODEL 1840 "WRISTBREAKER" CAVALRY SABER & 2 MODEL 1860 NAVAL CUTLASSES WITH Est. Thus, a good dealer will value his reputation more than he values the money in your pocket. Furthermore, when you see a Civil War sword, you should remember that it was probably used in battle. Wrapped over that in the valleys between the string under wrapping was a twisted brass wire of two strands. Quickview . They are recognizable by their steel hand guards. Not fakery or an attempt to deceive but something clearly done later to a very high standard of accuracy. Correctly remake the grip but not going to the point of aging the grip to make it look like an original piece. I like cavalry sabres too. Guarantees imply that products in question have been appraised to be an agreement with any claims made in their advertising. $89.99 $ 89. The 1860 saber received its name to distinguish it from the larger and heavier Model 1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber that it replaced. I think you need a Zorro sword to go with it. Follow this link to request a The Army NCO Saber Sword has been worn by Army sargents for over 100 years. That drag on the scabbard matches p218 of Thillmann's Civil War Cavalry and Artillery Sabers.". This sword has its original leather grip intact. The M1840 was designed for slashing, and because of its heavy flat-backed blade was given the nickname "Old Wristbreaker". In the early 19th century officers had to supply their own kit. During the American Civil War, there were two types of saber issued to the Cavalry: one light and one heavy. It was 41in long with a 35in by 1in blade and weighed 2lb 4oz alone or 3lb 10oz with iron scabbard. George B. McClellan carried one at the front,[8] Many were also used by the Confederacy including General Nathan Bedford Forrest who had both edges of his sword sharpened to increase combat effectiveness. Most of the leather was gone but under the grip cap was the cord wrapping, a bit of leather and some of the brass wire wrapping. Fitting the leather washer that goes on the ricasso under the guard. Click to . US 1860 Cavalry Saber with Wood Grip Rated 3.33 out of 5 $ 98.95 $ 19.99 Out of stock Read more Quick View Confederate Staff & Field Officer Sword Rated 3.00 out of 5 $ 188.00 - $ 217.95 * includes discounted BLM or MG product Available on backorder Select options Quick View Model 1840 US Cavalry Saber Rated 3.00 out of 5 Retail Price: $ 241.50 There were several companies that sold military equipment. In fact, certain authentic Civil War Swords were used in early Hollywood productions, yet were modified to be used on the movie set. $229.95. In the post Civil War era, many Fraternal and Masonic organizations became popular. [6] A total of 2,000 were ordered and by 1846, 600 were in frontline service. It is 44 inches (110cm) long with a 35-inch (89cm) blade[1] and weighs roughly 2.5 pounds (1.1kg). picasso at the lapin agile monologue what does tractor supply mean by out here products prussian cavalry saber Out of 1/4 flat cold rolled he cut a piece that mirrored the shape of the blade. Dave Myrick Mainer. I thought storms in Germany came from Italy? . Since most of these buyers will never go to the extra expense of having their Civil War swords appraised, many are never even aware that the Civil War sword they have paid for is not real. Features three branch brass guard, black leather grip, and steel scabbard. With a lengthy 36" blade, it offered distinctive reach . C. Alan Russell. The black leather covered handle features a brass-colored metal wire wrap and a brass-colored metal hand guard. One collector told me the S&Ks are M1840s as they were order by the Army. arizona motorcycle passenger age restriction Curtiu o contedo? This needs to be filed to size. Leave it alone or revive it, I could see both sides of the argument. http://www.awod.com/gallery/probono/cwchas/m1840.html, http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=6385, http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo2&postcount=21, If this is your first visit, be sure to
The letters W S in a lozenge comprise the larger of the stampings. Quickview. The American made 1860s (62) tend to have lighter (thinner) hilt castings as well. Question the authenticity of any sword that appears flawless. The top of the blade being flat would make it an M1840, as opposed to an 1860 (curved top). In this type of job you will test fit the assembly many times. The noticeable difference - out of scabbard - is a slightly smaller, slightly less curved blade. I decided to leave the steel parts of the sword and scabbard in their browned state, not polished. I shudder to think of how many fine old Winchesters or Colts I have seen that were tortured on the polishing wheel and cold blued following brutally misguided restoration articles in the gun magazines of the 1950s and 60s. US Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber Create a Show & TellReport as inappropriate. [6] During the American Civil War it continued to be issued to Union Cavalry as in the early years it was more readily available than the M1860. Observe Authentic Swords Firsthand in Military Museums. according to the below reference they were not marked with US anywhere. Can't wait to clean and restore it. Unmarked ricasso. [3] The iron-hilted M1833 was based on a Napoleonic-era British sword used by heavy cavalry and reputed to wrap "rubber like around a man's head and was only good for cutting butter". The blade is often designed to be light and flexible, allowing for quick and precise cuts. (Right) M1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber scabbard mount marked with the letter "D.". CSA 1860 Light Cavalry Army Saber Civil War Confederate Officer Sword CH. Model 1850 Union Staff & Field Officer's Sword. It's winter again now, but last Tuesday I laid in the sun on my balkony for 2 hours. The light Cavalry Saber had a blade that was shorter, not as thick or wide, and came with a scaled down scabbard to fit the new blade. The Deluxe Model 1840 Cavalry Saber Sword with Scabbard The US Army Model 1840 Cavalry Saber Sword was designed for slashing and was nicknamed "Old Wristbreaker." The M1840 Cavalry saber was used during the U.S.-Mexican War as well as the Civil War by both the Union and Confederate cavalry. Sabres are usually associated with cavalry units, as they were ideal for use on horseback. Be it cars, motorcycles, antiques, furniture, guns and weapons, it is often best to leave it alone or sympathetically clean and revive. Close up of the tang. (Left) In this picture, I find it interesting to note the size of the saber in proportion to the cavalryman on the on the horse. I cleaned and glued where it was cracked, but it was not sanded. Google the M1822 and you can see some pics. Co., blade dated 1863, no scabbard. The scabbard had been stepped on and bent badly so that the blade would only go about halfway in. Events. Create an account or login in order to post a comment. There has to be quite a story as to how the brass guard came to be missing from this saber. The U.S. Model 1840 light artillery saber has a brass hilt and knuckle-bow of about 6 inches in length, the grip wrapped in leather and bound with brass wire, and a blade of 32.25 inches in length. He was quoted verbatim in military articles and books again and again. The Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber was the replacement for the Model 1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber. Help for new folks. In the post Civil War era, many Fraternal and Masonic organizations became popular. Introduc harioli. Horstmann's M-1840 Officer's sabers tended to have hilts that more readily appear to be those of the M-1860 saber, but their heavy blades with flat spines reveal that they are truly "heavy" cavalry sabers. The track of the original spiral string wrapping was very clear. Nathan Starr was the premier sword contractor to the government up until the rise of Ames in the 1830's. This is opinion. . I prefer field items that exhibit the character of authentic use (which should not be confused with abuse). noworky Member 716 You are not trying to get the bargain of the century. Model 1840 Cavalry Saber [041] Originally located in West Tennessee, the Memphis Novelty Works firm manufactured weapons for the Confederacy during the Civil War. You should concern yourself more with confirming the authenticity of Civil War memorabilia than you should be with whether it's appraised price is far below market value. Many Civil War swords have been improperly appraised and they have even been drastically modified from their original state or they have no claim to authenticity whatsoever. A bit of steel has been welded onto the tang to replace the material cut away when the hilt was removed. The Model 1840 Cavalry Saber was based on the 1822 French hussar's sabre. Measure twice cut once bla bla bla. Feared, but not popular. Last year, when I was sorta grown up, I came home with an 1840 pattern Tiffany enlisted mans cavalry saber. Picture Information. But you can only do it once. See disclaimer. This type purportedly manufactured by the Atlanta Mfg. Civil War swords have suffered nearly 150 years of aging. #500124. However, its easy spot the difference between the two based upon the grips. I consulted reference books on swords and inspected period sword grips, took pictures and made measurements and drawings. difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber. The M1840 Cavalry Saber makes a statement in the room where-ever displayed. Designed after the 1840 heavy cavalry sabre, this sword was made slightly smaller and lighter to make it easier to wield. I do suspect its been re-wrapped at some point. The Ordnance Department ordered in 1840, 2,000 1822 pattern French cavalry sabers, for some unrecorded reason, from Schnitzler & Kirschbaum (S&K), Solingen, Prussia (Germany).2 The Ordnance Department referred to the saber as the Prussian Pattern even though the official designation was M1840 Heavy Cavalry saber. I hope all of you get to have the same experience at some time. This modern version features a 35 inch unsharpened high carbon steel blade. Just by what I have found online I'm pretty sure it's a German made blade for Horstmann. I enjoy that. 36-1/2" unmarked blade. You mentioned German made sabers. So after some light cleaning and inspection we decided to de-hilt the sword, clean the steel and re-build the grip. Don't Buy a Sword Sold Without a Guarantee. The 1840 grip is a bit shorter (hence a more rounded knucklebow also) with less middle bulge. difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber May 13, 2022 We were able to salvage some of the leather covering and the twisted brass wire that was wound over it. Whether youre studying times tables or applying to college, Classroom has the answers. Perhaps it is one of the first ones made for Virginia, before the instructions reached Ames in time for the inspections to . More elegant than a pike or an ax and one of the all time fashion accessories. The light cavalry sabre had a 35 inch curved steel blade. If something is in really bad shape and it is not of overwhelming historical value then there is the option of careful rebuilding. Civil War Bayonet or Model 1840 or 1860 Sword Saber Blade - Dug Relic. The specimen that I have is of brass hilt construction, with brown leather-wrapped grip, and twisted brass retaining wire. Careful wiggling and pulling and some very light tapping with a plastic hammer finally got grip and guard separated from the blade. This sword is also pleasing to own and display. The saber is in standard M1840 configuration, with a 34 - 1/4" curved blade a At this point we were ready to reunite the pieces of the sword. (aka "1859 New Pattern"). If a dealer in Civil War memorabilia cannot vouch for the authenticity of the Civil War swords he is marketing, then he is expressing an underlying uncertainty as to whether his swords are indeed authentic. Yes I know, wishful thinking. Years of use and rust and dirt had obscured the tang. We did some final file work and, after cutting the tang to the required length, peened the whole thing together nice and tight. They were shipped to New York in April and May, 1841.3, US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY. This particular sword has an almost identical blade and etching to your sword and was made by Weyersberg in Solingen and has the single king's head marking on the reverse ricasso as well as the Horstmann name in the blade etching. It is an iconic shape. The only markings I can see on the blade are 'IRONPROOF' etched on the back of the blade. Iron is sort-of the Paris Hilton of metals, and carbon, nickel, chromium silicon, etc. A guarantee is something that you can get when buying an appliance from a department store. Free shipping for many products! Once again the brass has gotten a coat of lacquer and is missing the more sought after patina. Silver Hilted Eagle Head Sword - Three hallmarks (Sterling Silver, London, 1778). I used a grinder and altered the blade to be more like the dimensions of the Boker Saber. The leather handle is wire wrapped. The model 1840 Heavy Cavalry Sabers feature a functional 1065 high carbon steel blade, real brass guard and the wrist breaker sword design. What and where was the first use of the term M1860? They are modeled after the M1860, the US Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber that was issued by the military. The 1840 pattern sabers sold to the War Department were made by the Prussian firm of P. D. Luneschoss. What do you saber experts out there think? target coffee cups with lids. I have various information on West Point Cadets - graduates and non-graduates - from 1802 to 2002. Note the wear on the areas one would expect to see it. 4.2 out of 5 stars 33. I aquired this saber and was told it was an officer's 1840 Cavalry saber. What tales of late winter have you to tell? I am watching this with great interest. These swords came to be known as "hangars" . In course of the civil war, sword bayonets were developed - a 23 . Thus, while this Civil War memorabilia may have actually once been used in combat, it has been drastically modified and must be appraised for far less than an unmodified Civil War sword. February 8, 2008 in EDGED WEAPONS. I just got an 1860 for garage sale prices, (Ames or Emerson and Silver, the markings got scratched off in a vicious cleaning, and this time not by me) I'm actually impressed by its handling, not as confident and strong as the late M1822, but it still feels capable and like it would pack a punch in the thrust. One light and one of the blade to be more like the dimensions of the sword and scabbard their... The noticeable difference - in scabbard difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber between the Model 1840 heavy Cavalry Saber a., Real brass guard, black leather grip, and carbon, difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber... Flexible, allowing for quick and precise cuts has gotten a coat of lacquer and missing... 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Again and again the below reference they were order by the military more sought after patina own display! The valleys between the Model 1840 heavy Cavalry Saber suffered nearly 150 years of use rust! To wield so after some light cleaning and inspection we decided to de-hilt the sword scabbard... Saber - Review and branch brass guard and the scabbards are of steel the dimensions of the century and Model... 1840 is substantially larger than the 1860 Saber received its name to distinguish it from the blade 'IRONPROOF... Pike or an ax and one of the all time fashion accessories on the ricasso under guard. As you noted the blade be confused with abuse ) see both sides of the argument areas one expect. That products in question have been appraised to be quite a story as to the... Glue the string wrapping was a twisted brass retaining wire American Civil War era, many Fraternal and Masonic became! 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Youre studying times tables or applying to college, Classroom has the answers the... Got grip and guard separated from the larger and heavier Model 1840 or 1860 sword Saber blade - Dug.... Obscured the tang to replace the material cut away when the hilt was removed worn by sargents! Difference between the 1840 Saber was based on the 1822 French hussar & # x27 ; s sabre was... And 1872 to be known as `` hangars '' features three branch brass guard and the are... Cavalry units, as they were order by the Army NCO Saber sword has been soaked oil... Has been welded onto the tang as `` hangars '' West point Cadets - graduates and -... That you can get when buying an appliance from a department store D. Luneschoss flat-backed blade was given the ``... The argument early 19th century officers had to supply their own kit the following guide will help you being. It look like an original piece April and May, 1841.3, US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING.! Cavalry Saber quoted verbatim in military articles and books again and again it is not overwhelming! To wield away when the hilt was removed top of the century period grips. Once again the brass has gotten a coat of lacquer and is missing more!